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Post by gespenst, FIN (admin) on Jul 19, 2011 16:05:46 GMT
There has been a lot if discussion about this in Finland and I wanted to bring it up here too. So, my thing is about photo permissions you ask by e-mail. In Finland and probably abroad too it is common to ask permissions for photo usage from real life studs. Unfortunately it becomes harder all the time to get permissions. Most breeders never even reply.
I emailed 15 different riding pony farms and three lewitzer studs over a month ago. All of the websites were active. I got one single reply.
Do you often get a reply when you ask for permissions? Or do you even use photos from other websites? Is it the same problem there, that they very rarely reply to you? Other thoughts of the topic welcome too.
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Post by Nessa (GER) on Jul 19, 2011 17:40:44 GMT
I ALWAYS ask for permission to use photos for free on my page and I never use photos without a permission. It does not hurt anybody to ask and it IS saver to do so, because a professional photographer does have the right to claim high amounts of money for using the images without paying for them or asking for permission. Sometimes it is very frustrating... I ask the same people for permission as my friends did.... while they got a "yes" and I did not even get an answer. Sometimes its the opposite of course, for example, I am allowed to use pictures of Z.B., while my friend did not get an answer. The only thing you can do is : go on with your search and dont loose faith. Sometimes they answer and you get a yes  its better than just taking the pictures. It feels good to know, that Im save. I knew a girl once, when the german sim-horse-and-breeder thing just had started (it was about 1999 or 2000 I think) and she used pictures of a famous german photographer on her page without a permission. He found out what she was doing and his lawyer sent her a bill of 50,- per photo she used. She fought against it but it was senseless. She had to pay the amount and she was never seen in the german community again after this. I guess she lost the fun in all of it. As I said, it does not hurt to ask. There are many sources which allow using their pictures if you ask politely. In Germany there are certain paragraphs for the whole thing, every photographer is allowed to charge you (for example) the triple of the normal amount they sell their pics for if you use pics without permission. Even if you are out of our country. I keep seeing pages writing down the adress of the source where they got the picture of their horse and I really like this, but I also found many (!) pages doing the same with pictures from pages where the owner of the pictures clearly does NOT allow to use them. Its making me kind of sad, for example when sim-horses are just valued by their pictures... I try to find the best pictures I can for my horse (depending on the colour this can be really really hard...) and my horse is still bad in the end compared to the horse which has pictures of a professional photographer which the horses owner clearly just took from any page without asking for permission. This keeps me frustrated to be honest. Not accusing anyone, but really... I found many pages using pictures of german real life breeders and I know those breeders DONT allow anybody to use the pics. |
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Post by gespenst, FIN (admin) on Jul 19, 2011 18:37:36 GMT
Of course I never use photos I don't get a permission for :--D Just as you said, it can cost a pretty amount of money. The law breakers ruin our reputation and thats one reason I think people don't want to let us use their photos.
But I honestly get frustrated too, when others get permissions from the same site and then I don't even get a reply...
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Post by stogadis (GER) on Jul 19, 2011 18:49:29 GMT
Yes it is frustrating, but i´m used to it. Today I have one text i send to all pages, because then it´s only a thing of perhaps a minute. Earlier i tried to explain why i would like to use exactly THIS page's pictures, this was just way to much work for allmost never getting an reply.
What i thing is almost as bad as copying without permission is some other thing i have seen very very often: "Copyright by Anna" who is Anna? Why isn´t there any possibility to contact her? Or "Photographer doesn´t want to be named"...
Both of these sentences sounds like the do NOT have the permission ans just pretend they have. Because for me there allways HAVE to be a possibility to contact the person (an website-link or email-adress) and i can´t imagine that there is any photographer who does NOT want to be named under his/her picture.
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Post by gespenst, FIN (admin) on Jul 19, 2011 19:26:46 GMT
In Finland it's common to have "photograph taker doesn't want to be named", but they are usually taken by fellow sim horse players who don't want their name to be shown. Another thing that makes people suspicious is using indeterminate letter combinations, like "D.F.", "NBS" etc. I think it's fine if it has been made a deal with the copyright owner, but otherwise its not really crediting the photographer the way it should. Some people don't credit anyone at all, sometimes it's a deal, sometimes tells from illegal copying.
I always mark the whole name of the photographer when I find photos from Flickr, from other websites I provide the website name and link.
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Post by Lin Ryder (SWE) on Jul 20, 2011 15:23:25 GMT
I've emailed maybe 10-15 farms/stables/ranches a while ago ... I think I got like .. 2 replies.
It kind of sucks. It ends up with alot of the time that people use pictures anyway without permission just because they don't get a reply.
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Post by Tessa {USA} on Jul 20, 2011 18:20:54 GMT
It can be very frustrating to not get replies, but I never use pictures I don't have permission for. If I email a farm and I don't hear back from them, I just cross them off my list and keep looking. I have found, that the way the letter for permission is worded has a lot to do with being allowed to use their pictures (I emailed one site when I first started and never heard back from them again, I emailed them a while back with the new letter I'd written up and heard back from them within a few hours and was allowed to use their pictures). I've also found that, with some websites, if you look around on their contacts pages and such they've already given permissions to use them on the sites and they often don't email you back if they've already stated on their sites. Another thing I've found, is if you offer to link back to their site underneath the pictures, they're more likely to allow you to use them.
I do feel ya though! It can be so frustrating to not hear back from a site. It's part of the reason why I've stopped using pictures at SAI (though Im going to slowly be bringing them back) and why I only use that at SCS for the time being.
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Post by Lin Ryder (SWE) on Jul 21, 2011 15:11:16 GMT
I have this letter that I always use when asking permission and most people that use it are granted permission, but I never hear back .. that can be very frustrating =/
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Post by chilli [GER] on Jul 23, 2011 18:26:27 GMT
Oh yes...I know this, too. I tried to use my own pictures, but I don't have enough time for going out to take pictures for every horse. And so I keep on aksing -and mostly don't get answers (where others do...)- or looking for archives. In the German community some hobby photographers build up pictures pages and give permission to chosen users. It ist really helpful and I'm glad that these archives exist  |
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Post by Lin Ryder (SWE) on Jul 23, 2011 20:20:45 GMT
I wish those existed in Sweden >< or America .. lol and that they could give me a positive response for once ><
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Post by gespenst, FIN (admin) on Jul 24, 2011 6:21:27 GMT
Same... Many Finnish hobby photographers have a more or less negative attitude towards simmers and don't want their photos to be used for sim horses.
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ionic
New Member
Posts: 28
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Post by ionic on Jul 28, 2011 10:17:23 GMT
Same... Many Finnish hobby photographers have a more or less negative attitude towards simmers and don't want their photos to be used for sim horses. I think the reason for this is the horse owners. Many horse owners really do think it's a worst possible insult if their horse's picture is found on a virtual horse page. If the photographer gives permissions for virtual stables, his/her "reputation" is totally destroyed and no one takes him/her seriously after that. No one want he/she to take photographs of their horses because of the fear that they might end up in virtual stables. I have been in the virtual horse world a decade and most of the time I have been very active in looking for photos or more strictly speaking creating connections to different horse owners, photographers etc. It has taken and still takes quite a lot of work but I have been able to get photos no one else has. |
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its better than just taking the pictures. It feels good to know, that Im save. 
